TODAY'S GUEST: Ela Darling, the world’s first VR camgirl

I'm extremely happy to welcome Ela Darling to Hard Conversations!

Ela Darling is an American pornographic actress and co-founder of virtual reality company VRTube.xxx, who first used virtual reality technology to record an erotic scenario in 2014.

Darling earned a Master of Library Science degree from the University of Illinois, and worked as a reference librarian prior to becoming an actor and entrepreneur. Darling has been a speaker at several conferences focused on virtual reality. She was also one of the individuals profiled in Allan Amato's 2016 book Slip: Naked in Your Own Words.

In 2014 she started VRTUBE.XXX and has been considered a pioneer and an entrepreneur in the industry of Virtual Reality erotica, an industry that was projected in 2018 to grow to $1 billion (USD) by 2020. She has been quoted on the topic of virtual reality sex and teledildonics by The Guardian, Rolling Stone, and various others

Ela won the 2018 XBIZ Award for "Crossover Star of the Year".

• WEBSITE:

  https://eladarling.com

• Social Media

• https://twitter.com/eladarling

• https://www.instagram.com/eladarling/

YOU'LL LEARN

• What porn stars do with erectile dysfunction

• That enough drinking will inhibit even a porn star’s erection

• Porn stars use PDE-5 inhibitors and penile injections

• Porn sets can be stressful environments

• Adult film actors experience pressure to perform

• Tips for coming back to focusing on oneself during sex

• Insights on sexuality

• As soon as the script changes to “Let’s just hang out” from sex, the erection returns

• Stories about erectile dysfunction

• What a porn star is thinking about when deciding to have sex with you

• Women notice that men aren’t forthcoming about their feelings

• Camgirl porn and virtual reality porn is exploding

• The technology for virtual reality porn is progressing rapidly

• Someone needs to make a VR porn video that utilizes sex therapist techniques

• And more!

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING to my male sexuality and sex therapy podcast!

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About the Show

Introducing Hard Conversations, a podcast about male sexuality, and all things erectile, from the latest natural erectile dysfunction treatment to the best ed medical treatment. Therapist Tim Norton expands the conversation about male sexuality, adds context to why we struggle as a society to have hard conversations and breaks down how in a sex-positive environment there really is no room for taboos, judgment, or shame when it comes to penises.

YOUR online sex therapy and couple’s therapy HOST:

Tim Norton is a sex positive sex therapist working in private practice. He offers online therapy, online sex therapy, online sex coaching, and therapy and coaching for somatic symptom disorder.

Tim obtained his bachelor’s and master’s degrees from the University of Southern California. Tim is a proud member of American Association of Sex Counselors, Educators, and Therapists (AASECT), the Los Angeles Sexological Association, and works part-time with the Pain Psychology Center in Beverly Hills.

Hard Conversations Podcast Transcript

Tim Norton: Hello, and welcome to hard conversations. I'm really excited about my next guest. Ela darling is an adult film actress and co-founder of virtual reality company VR two.xxx. She grew up in Texas has a bachelor's degree in forensic psychology from the university of Texas in Dallas and a master's in library and information science from the university of Illinois.

Which she earned by the age of 21. She starred in over 100 films and won the 2018 ex biz award for crossover star of the year. You can see her 2017 Ted talk dare to [00:01:00] start over where she talks about the intersectionality between porn and virtual reality technology. Hello, Ela. Hello. Thank you so 

Ela Darling: much for having me.

Tim Norton:  Thank you so much for coming. This is really exciting. You are. We had one porn performer on my second to last episode, a gay male performer who had some great insight. His name is Allen silver. Okay, cool. Kind of like,   dad is his, his, his John rhe type. And so my first female porn actress, really excited about your insight into male erectile issues on and off porn sets.Awesome. So what do you know that will cure erectile issues for all men? Tell me 

Ela Darling: in two minutes. Thanks.  I've got this magical potion I make from snake oil. I charge a very, very reasonable fee for it. And it'll cure all of your ails, frankly. Yes. Your website. Knock it out, living my cons.  I see, I don't really have a website so much as a, a spot in this alley.

[00:02:00] It's it's very nice one though. And,  

Tim Norton: all right, good. So we'll, we'll put that alley location on the website after this interview.  so seriously though. Has that ever come up,  on a porn set? 

Ela Darling: Oh, yeah, absolutely.  it's a porn set is,  is a pretty rough environment,  to perform in. And especially for men, you know,  as a female performer, there's a lot that I can fake.

Right.  if my, if I'm not aroused, there are ways that I can accommodate whatever's going on to, to make it work. But,  if you're someone with a penis it's really hard to pretend you have an erection, you know?  so it's certainly come up,  There are different ways that people handle it. Sometimes they take pills.

Sometimes they use injections.  sometimes it just doesn't work out and you have to call it.  I've had instances where it just, you know, it was a tough day. It's very hot. You're surrounded by people on [00:03:00] important set. So. You've got people behind the camera. There are people everywhere.  most of them don't really care.

Like it's not exciting for them. They're just working. They want to go home. So you've got this added pressure of, you know, everybody's sort of depending on you right now,  and that can get into someone's head pretty easily.  if you're not attracted to your scene mate, or if your teammate isn't attracted to you and it's hard to foster chemistry that can, you know, cause,  that can lead to.

Some erectile dysfunction issues.  there's, there's a lot of things that, that would put someone in that position.  and it happens sometimes. Yeah, most performers that I know have a plan in place or have, you know, something in their back pocket to, to deal with it when it comes up so that they can make it through the scene.

Because at the end of the day, we all want to just work and get paid and go home.  I've had really only one instance where it turned out to be a really, really,  sort of. Challenge, like really challenging.  but it was because the [00:04:00] person was drinking, they brought a bottle of vodka and just started drinking onset, which is something that almost never happens.

 and this was sort of a,  not your typical porn set. And so when we finally got to the sex part, he just could not perform. And,  I did my best to sort of get him to a place where he could. And I think eventually we managed, but it was a very challenging day.  it added, you know, extra time to the day and not made it even more stressful for him to get into the right head space.

He shouldn't have been drinking on set. It's a job. That's just not what you're really supposed to do, but we, we dealt with it. 

Tim Norton: Even even people and adult film can't drink on the job. 

Ela Darling: Yeah.  this guy was new and I think he just thought that porn was a party and it was not a good day. Well, this is kind 

of 

Tim Norton: disappointing to hear though that it's not just a party, but it's work.

There's sets there's people. There's, there's a sound man [00:05:00] and yeah. And they're not that interested in it. And that, that is a lot of pressure to perform. You called it a rough environment. 

Ela Darling: Yeah. It can be pretty rough. It can be a stressful environment.  yeah. It's not rough in that it's unsafe. It's just rough in that the nature of the work you're doing is very physical and,  the, the pressure to perform and to deliver a good scene and deliver a good performance,  and create something that you're proud of, that your fans are going to enjoy.

That will take you a little bit farther in your career. I mean, that's yeah. 

Tim Norton: And salon Atlanta to be thinking about,  And was that you said you sometimes call it was, was that kind of like the only time that that happened or, yeah, 

Ela Darling: it's not something that happens very often in my experience. And I'm not, I'm not a director, so I couldn't tell you how common that is because I'm not the one who has to call their shots.

Yeah. I really, haven't seen many instances where, where that's been the case again, most guys who, who anticipate that, that might happen, bring [00:06:00] a pill or a surrender or whatever, and they handle it themselves and their penises, their business. And they're 

Tim Norton: good to go. Yeah. And their penis is their business.

Yeah, it's not like they're going to come to you and say, can you help me? 

Ela Darling: They do. And we do, and I'll do the best I can, but I'm saying however, they choose to handle it. Whether they want to take a pill or they want to use an injection or whatever, that's, I don't feel like it's really my place to have an opinion on.

 people do have opinions on whether that's something that people should be doing.  whether that's healthy, whether that's, you know, a good practice to put into place or a good expectation. But,  I just don't think I'm. Really the right person to, to comment on that since it's not mine. 

Tim Norton: Right. It's now yours do with your penis, what you will.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you get a sense of what emotionally is going on for the guy in those situations? 

Ela Darling:  it's not really a scenario where there's a lot of. [00:07:00] Disclosure,  especially in a situation like that, the instances where I've come across that we didn't know each other. We met that day,  frequently, we didn't really click.

And so we don't really have the relationship dynamic where they're going to, you know, emotionally disclose their state to me. But I can tell that they are feeling very distressed. They're very anxious. They're embarrassed.  They're feeling concerned on a professional level, because they're worried that failure to perform onset means that they might not get hired again by that company.

 they don't want people, you know, they don't want another performer in the room to talk about it. They don't want to get a reputation for not being able to do the job that they're hired to do. So I think there's a lot of distress. There's a little bit of humiliation. There's some embarrassment and,  You know,  the best thing I could think to do is just sit with them help, whatever way I can physically.

I mean, some people are opposed to that there are some performers who really do not want to engage sexually [00:08:00] off-camera because that's just not the job that they're there to do.  personally, it doesn't usually bother me as long as they're respectful, as long as we foster, you know,  good communication together.

 And sold to the bus. They can both physically and sort of just in a emotionally supportive capacity to help bring them back to a place where they can sort of move past it. 

Tim Norton: Yeah. And in that, that supportive capacity, do you, do you feel like you're soothing, like this performance, anxiety, like you said, they've got a lot at stake here or are you more trying to turn them on 

Ela Darling: for me?

 It really, I have to read the situation.  if they're, if they're, if they appear to be very distressed and very upset and very, you know, up in their head about something, then I'll try to sort of Sue them and tell them, you know, it's okay to just, we, we can take our time. This is what we're here to do [00:09:00] today.

Take, we can all take, felt like everybody is going to be happy to, to go have a smoke break, go have a bottle of water or whatever, just, you know, focus on you. It's okay. That's sort of the approach that I take with them. If that's the kind of talk that we're going to have,  if it's a sex thing I'll maybe sexy.

I don't know. It's again, I don't necessarily know them that well, so I don't know what it is that is going to turn them on. And having that conversation in that moment is something that. Just doesn't really happen. It's I kind of have to guess, so physically stimulate them. However, they usually I'll just go down on them and just see if I can get through them.

Tim Norton: Yeah. And that that'll help. I like your point about smoke break. And,  maybe, maybe get a bottle of water,  cause that could apply to the listeners out there, who aren't on porn sets and trying to have sex and bedrooms. And a lot of the times I think what happens [00:10:00] is, is guys will really just call it right there without that smoke break option.

And then let's go have a bottle of water.  so that that's really nice advice. That's really like a nice way of looking at it. Like. Take it easy for a minute. 

Ela Darling: Yeah.  in a porn scenario, I think obviously it's very, very different from an experience you would have personally at home with your partner.

And,  I've experienced that in a few cases too, which we'll get to.  but when we're on set, it's just, you know, There is a little bit more pressure because the sex is something that we're being paid to do and have right now.  you don't have the same flexibility as you would if you were at home with a partner,  just, you know, we can have sex right now, or we could go and have a snack or we could, you know, watch some dorky YouTube videos and see if we can sort of revisit this place in a few minutes or an hour.

 it's. Much more pressing in terms [00:11:00] of time onset.  whereas, you know, in my personal life I've had experiences like that with guys, and it's just, I think taking a step back and taking the focus off of having sex right now and, you know, redirecting our energies to something else so that the pressure is off,  as something that can really help,  frequently just deciding, okay, we're just not going to do this right now.

We'll. Maybe do it another on another day, maybe we'll see how we're feeling later. And in those cases, I found that when we make that choice and when we mentally disengage from that, that experience, then a pressure is lifted off of them. And then like there's one case. I remember one experience I had where as soon as it was, as soon as the, the script changed to, okay, let's just go.

Hang out. We'll hang out another time. Then the boner came and then it was just like, there it is. Hello. There, there, [00:12:00] there we are.  because there was a lot of mental pressure and we just needed to relieve that pressure. So he could get back into a space where,  an erection was going. 

Tim Norton: Right. And I hear that.

Time and time again, in my practice, you know, the way we explain it is until that moment, your body was basically in a fight or flight state, and it was, it was probably ready to flee. And your words you sang, Hey, we don't even have to do it today. Take it completely off of the table. No body can leave flight state.

Now body can relax. Blood can start flowing wherever it needs to flow. And they're relaxed and Hey, when we're not in a fight or flight state, there was blood for the penis. Yeah. Great. 

Ela Darling:  the instances where I recall being with a partner who is experiencing erectile dysfunction were almost always situations that were especially high pressure.

[00:13:00] So they were very intimidated because it was our first time together and there,  They're intimidated by the fact that I'm a porn star and that I have seen a lot of penises. And so they sort of get hung up on that, or they're afraid that they won't perform to the standards that I'm used to, or they're put off because I'm.

Someone who they consider to be out of their lead in some way, which is I think silly. But,  

Tim Norton: it sounds like you go in there and, and you engage them. You're you're, you're finding out what's 

Ela Darling: going. Yeah. I mean, if I'm here and I'm ready to have sex with you, like you Pat, like you're through the door, like you're good.

You got it. You got in,  or,  Having like a threesome with someone where there's this other person who isn't present in your day-to-day life. So it's sort of a, I kind of now or never thing or now, or if we don't do it now, then we might lose the opportunity altogether. And then,  the whole situation is incredibly arousing.

It's something that he was [00:14:00] very, very enthusiastic about, but because there was so much else on, you know, on deck at that point,  It happened. And then again, we just deescalated, we said, Hey, you know what? This is this third person that we're interested in having sex with is also just really cool person.

So we could just hang, we just, you know, chill out a little bit. And then again, it happened. You're good at this, I think, yeah. 

Tim Norton: You might have to open this little shop in the alley at all. You might not really. Sell anything. You'll just have to give an elaborate description of what to say as you take the snake oil.

And so, yeah. Speak to some of the partners of people out there. Like, did you notice maybe as you matured in relationships, I think we all learn how to talk to our partners better with time, or maybe you were just good at it. Maybe you just had that kind of style of communication, but do you notice. Like, it's a, it's a part of your delivery in the [00:15:00] way that you communicate that message to the guy.

Like, no, really we can chill for a minute. 

Ela Darling: So. Speaking to two partners who, who experienced this?  it's, it's definitely something that I've grown into and matured into because when I was younger, I was not good at handling situation like that because I completely internalized it. And especially when I was younger immediately, I thought, Oh, this is about me.

Am I not pretty enough? Am I not sexy enough? Do you not? Are you not attracted to me? Is it something that like, what am I doing wrong? What do you like about me? And it, I realized as I got older and I had more sex that I met more people. It's not about me at all. It's entirely about them and directing the conversation to something it, to, to that to, well, is it, what am I doing wrong?

What am I not pretty enough? Do you not like me? Do you not think of attractive? That is all, that's such a boner killer in the first place. Like competence is important. Competence is key [00:16:00] understanding that this is about your partners. Body. This is about them. This is about their Headspace. And it's not about you at all.

You are not, you're not the one causing this, but you can help get them through it if you, if you try and if you choose to.  but I think first and foremost, you have to understand that this, it just happens. It happens sometimes, and it's not a reflection on you. So coming to terms with that and realizing that,  is something that was.

That took some time to learn similarly,  if I would be with a partner and they just wouldn't ejaculate, we would have sex and then they just wouldn't come for a while. When I was younger, I took that so personally,  and then, I don't know, maybe I maybe being a sex worker made me jaded or maybe I just stopped giving a shit about men that much.

It's like, it's not a destination. It's not. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. It's an experience. It's a journey. [00:17:00]  at the end of that journey, maybe you, you reach a finish line where there's a climax. Maybe you don't what's important is that you enjoyed yourselves along the way. So if I had a good time and I didn't come, I'm still cool with that.

And when I realized that about myself, that I can. Have fun, engaging sexually.  if we don't have penetrative sex, but we have fun in other ways and we have sexy time and we feel sexy and we enjoy each other's company and we feel good. Even if we don't feel orgasmic, that's still a really great experience to share with, with a partner.

And it's okay if that's where it ends. Like that can be enough also. And so finding. Finding ways for me to enjoy an experience and walk away satisfied, regardless of the outcome was something that I found very helpful. 

Tim Norton: Hmm. I feel like this could be your next Ted talk. You're very eloquent about this. I actually find it [00:18:00] kind of moving how much I I'm imagining guys listening to this.

And it's one thing to hear from me in that see, you know, paying for me to say it. And it's another thing with your experience and, and, and being able to speak so. Confidently matter of faculty about this. I think that it's a really good message to try to just help sink in.  and so as you got older and, and it was less about you then, did you notice you were just other things were occurring to you that you could say in those situations?

Yeah. I mean, once 

Ela Darling: I stopped making it. And once I stopped interpreting it as a personal reflection and I switched to just understanding that this is just their, their body, their experience, a thing that they're dealing with right now.  and I identified that a very strong component that was contributing to the experience was emotional.

That they were feeling emotional in some way, whether they were [00:19:00] scared or intimidated or nervous,  And that when I reacted emotionally, by being upset by, you know, blaming myself by being hurt by being,  you know, performatively upset about it, that was always something that led to further failure. So removing the emotional component or at least,  neutralizing it and finding.

The highs or the lows in myself and finding ways to sort of like to, to center myself and not, not internalize it, not, not interpreted as something that is about my personal value or my value as a sex partner and not interpret their experience as a personal failure to them or a personal failure on their part or.

They're just lack of desire when I took that away, then all I was left with was okay, well, these are the things that are standing in the way of the erection. Let's address those. If it's emotional, which for, in [00:20:00] my experience, it usually was, let's just calm those emotions. Let's redirect our energies and then we can come back to it or we don't.

And that's also okay. 

Tim Norton: Calming the emotions. How do you calm a guy's emotions? 

Ela Darling:  so. Frequently. No, no, no, no.  frequently men are,  not forthcoming about their feelings and especially in a situation like that, they're feeling very vulnerable. And so to discuss their emotions in the moment just brings them to an even more vulnerable place.

So it can be very hard to get them to open up about those things. So. I sort of anticipate what they might be feeling. And I try to find the words to,  to soothe those ideas without planting those ideas in their heads. So I don't want to say,  something like, Oh,  you know, I, it's not that, like, I don't think you're any less of a man because you don't have an erection right now, because then what I'm saying is, you know, [00:21:00] That might be a thing that you should think about that this for some people would make you less of a man in their eyes, you know?

 I try very hard not to,  not just state what I think they might be thinking and just to sort of accommodate them where they are. So,  I am being very vague and I'm trying to, no, that's 

Tim Norton: perfect. Cause you're, you're not making them sit there and say, Like I'm scared. You're not trying to pull that out of them, you know, which I'm trying to do honestly,  whose we're not obviously not having sex in the moment and everything, but just trying to get them to engage with that.

But in that moment, you you're guessing or you're intuiting. Okay. What's going on? And maybe what do I like to hear? What most men like to hear when they're having those kinds of a fear and since, so you just kind of give them that. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, 

Ela Darling: basically.  if I think that they're feeling like they,  They're not going to satisfy me in any way.

I can just say, you know what, let's just not do sex. Let's do other things. Let's do. Let's make out. Let's [00:22:00] do hand stuff. Let's do other stuff like finger bang or something. Like we can still have fun. I'm still gonna have fun. You're going to have fun doing it because we're going to enjoy each other's company.

And there's, you know,  an inclination that you want to make the other person come. And if. You're not going to do it with your penis, then how do you do it? Well, here, here's how you can do it.  if, if you're, if that's the thing, then we can still reach that desired end,  without an erection in the picture.

And once we just decide, you know what, we're just not going to do that thing. Then it, in my experience has been much more likely that an erection ends up, ends up coming because again, the pressure is off. 

Tim Norton: Okay. And you, and you said that before, but now you're saying that. With full recognition that they're having this emotional experience going on.

And then you're, you're, you're kind of juggling those two things. So you, you know, he's having this emotion, you know, commenting on it directly, we'll just [00:23:00] kind of make it more intense. Right. So you're still dealing with it, but just 

Ela Darling: indirect. Yeah, exactly. If I think that they're feeling a sense of failure in some way, I might compliment other things that they do.

Like you're an amazing kisser, or I love it when you do this thing, like that's really hot. That's so sexy, I think. But I think you're really awesome and really sexy person. And the fact that you don't have an erection right now, doesn't change that. And I might say that explicitly, I might not, but conveying to them that you still find them acceptable, attractive, worthy of your affection worthy of your time.

You still consider them to be a worthy partner. I think can, can help them move past it. Mm 

Tim Norton: Hmm. That's great. As you were saying that I started to feel guilty. You know, this is, this is,  this is a podcast. For men, for people with penises and erectile issues. And you had commented earlier that if you're on [00:24:00] a porn set and you're having essentially lubrication issues or issues being turned on, it's more subtle.

And there are things that you can do. I assume you can add lubricant.  but, but we're not talking about that there, you know, I haven't had an episode for the women out there who are struggling with this, or we could have a whole podcast just dedicated to that, obviously. 

Ela Darling:  yeah, I mean, from my perspective, if I'm not aroused and I'm not really into it, I'll take some time to myself, all masturbate, I'll use some lube.

 I find that certain breathing exercises can help sort of loosen things up a little bit. So it's not like painful, especially in porn, you tend to work with fairly big penises. So if you're not aroused and you, I mean, It can hurt sometimes. So just finding ways to sort of get into a place where I don't have to like have an orgasm, I can fake my orgasms, but at least physically where,  it's a comfortable experience.

 [00:25:00] that's sort of what I, what I go for. And usually I can find something either in my brain or in my memory or, or, or just physical simulation to at least bring me to a point where I'm having an okay time, you know, What's your breathing exercise. See, I don't really know how to describe it. It's just when,  when I feel like it's just the person I'm having sex with is too much or a little too big, or they're maybe going a little deeper than,  than I find comfortable.

I just sort of,  relax and I'll take deep breaths and sort of just rhythmically. I don't know, I, again, I breathing, it's just breathe it's inhalation and the next relation, but I don't really know how to describe it. It's not something I really studied. It's just something that, that I found helps for me is just taking some deep breaths in and relaxing my vaginal muscles and just kind of breathing through it.

And,  also just asking them to sort of pick, [00:26:00] like go slowly and sort of pace themselves. And that also helps. 

Tim Norton: And you can do that on a porn 

Ela Darling: site, on a porn set. I had it described to me as the Heisman where you use your hand, that's sort of not facing the camera and you kind of like tap them and that sort of the signal that, you know, slow down or pull back or, you know, ease into it a little bit more.

 so you've got kind of this, this backhand sort of it's tap. Yeah. And I guess it's supposed to look like the Heisman trophy. It was one porn director who said it. So I don't know that that's necessarily a common parlance, but,  But I thought it was funny and it, and it helps like, I'll talk to them ahead of time or we'll, we'll kind of, we'll take a break or something and I'll just be like, Hey, you know, yo just give me a little, a little time to sort of work up to the full, the full thing.

Tim Norton: Okay. Interesting. So you,  you doing other things besides porn?  tell me more about.  the [00:27:00] Oculus rift, or what do you have going on with, with your, your app? Is it a channel? Is it a website? A 

Ela Darling: couple of things. So I was just hired as the chief marketing officer of a new adult VR headset company called PVR pvr.fun and Avenue, a new headset called the Iris.

And it's this really beautiful, lightweight headset.  it connects to their site. So you,  when you buy it, you have a free subscription for. A certain period of time and you can buy VR videos through the website and you pair your device with your account. So you can just send them to the site or send them to your headset.

And if the headset is connected to wifi, it'll just automatically download. So you can watch it very easily. It's very streamlined.  And it's, it's just a really cool product.  I met the people who run the company a couple of months ago and I tried it out and I was actually really impressed by it. And so they were interested in having me on their team and I, I liked it.

So, so now I work with them and it's really cool. I'm really excited about it. So [00:28:00] if you're someone who enjoys VR porn, it's a really great headset to have a sort of your own personal. Private adult VR experience.  I use VR a lot. I have several VR headsets and a lot of the time, a lot of the time I have people over and I want to show them stuff in my rift or my vibe or whatever.

And the last thing I want is. To have like lube on the headset or hand,  you know, a mobile headset to a family member that, you know, and I've used this headset when I was jerking off. And who knows what kind of humor is might be left out? There's there's just a lot that runs through your head where it's like, you know, Maybe having a private headset for your private moments is a good choice.

And,  and also if I'm watching VR porn on my computer and then someone sees it and they're like, Oh,  an Oculus rift, let's try this out. And they put it on. Then they're immersed in a porn experience that can be very jarring for them. And it can lead to a very uncomfortable situation, a very uncomfortable conversation.

So,  So I, yeah, I think it's really [00:29:00] great headset. It's really great product. It's really nice if you are interested in VR porn, but you're not very tech savvy. It's a very simple process. So that is one of the things I'm doing now. I'm representing this company.  we also make a VR camera for VR production, which is simple and cool and really high quality.

 and then I'm also starting a new non adult VR app. That will be a live broadcasting. That I sort of, I sort of like to think of it as,  a live VR podcast on us where you can be present in the room with the broadcaster.  it's 3d three 60. You can look all the way around you and you see the studio that they're in.

 there are markers on the wall there AR markers. So when you look at these markers, they're overlaid with a video or an image or a link,  they also control. Little Arduino robots that I build that are placed around the different rooms that you can engage in. So there's like an up phone leader. So if there's two people in a broadcast having a debate, you can sort of thumbs up or thumbs down or, or [00:30:00] vote for one who you think is winning the debate,  over the other.

 and then another style of broadcast is,  Basically, I built a car. I built, I built a little, a little Arduino car that you can drive around my living room and you can give my dogs, my dog treats in virtual reality from a dog treat dispenser I made and there are markers all over the walls. So we're gonna, once we launch, we're going to put in a different, like maybe weekly new content that you can sort of drive around and see maybe an ongoing narrative, maybe something that gives you like a badge for, you know, checking in, checking out the markers every week.

 And it's kind of a proof of concept. Eventually. I'd love to have, have it set up so that there's a cool VR card that you can drive around,  the creative office of your favorite cartoonist or artist or something like that. I think there's a lot of applications.  And yeah, that's kind of what I'm working on.

So I don't have a launch date yet, but,  I'm really psyched about it.  and yeah, those are the [00:31:00] cool things I'm doing. I'm hosting the red carpet at the porn hub awards in September and a couple of weeks. So that'll be, 

Tim Norton: yeah. Yeah. I mean the reason or how I found you was I had no idea how to pick someone was you come up when you Google,  Porn stars who were smarty pants and like a few different searches.

And,  you know, your master's degree in library information science did. And you did work at a library for a while, or where was it? I watch it 

Ela Darling: a few. I was the associate director of a library just outside of Boston,  right after grad school. And that was around the time that I started dipping my toes in the adult industry.

And so once I had a few like fetish shoots under my belt, I realized that if I moved to Los Angeles, I can pursue this and make this a full-time job. And if I want to do that, it's kind of, I need to do it sooner rather than later.  and it was. A situation where I do [00:32:00] my degree, I wasn't going anywhere and librarians tend to be pretty cool about a lot of things.

 so I felt like if it didn't work out, I could probably still find work in a library afterwards.  and so I just, I just did that. I, I finished up my year at the library and then I said, goodbye. And I moved to LA and I started doing lesbian porn and that was almost nine years ago. 

Tim Norton:  And would you say you're pulling away from porn or because you are.

Mixing, right. You're getting involved in other things. Right.  but 

Ela Darling: yeah, I am, I wouldn't say that I'm retired yet because I think that it's very unlucky to, to say that.  but it's, I, I don't really focus on performing anymore. I'm really more focused on behind the scenes corporate stuff.  yeah.

Technological innovation and sex tech.  and also, you know, our new company, the new company that I'm starting with, my business partner [00:33:00] is completely outside of the adult realm. And eventually as I move forward with that, I'll probably eventually leave the adult space behind,  And so it's sort of a slow transition.

So I worked for two years, a little over two years as a content manager at a webcam company, the VR content manager. And I worked in training models on VR and empowering other performers to, to differentiate themselves with virtual reality. And,  and yeah, it's, I love performing when I did it, but I just am not really in the Headspace anymore.

And,  and yeah. And you love the VR. I love VR. You do? Yeah. 

Tim Norton: It's so much fun. You have a few sets around so 

Ela Darling: many headsets. It's it's a lot. Yeah.  I couldn't even count how many headsets are in my house right now. Awesome. But, but yeah, it's, I mean, I we're developers, so, 

Tim Norton: and so before you completely leave, I want to [00:34:00] collaborate on something.

So I think, or whoever would do it, but. What you said in like the first 20 minutes of this interview combined with like someone I don't know where I would even want them to be, but could combine with some kind of Oculus rift or VR technology.  I think that could be really cool. I think that could be really helpful just to like, get those soothing messages from an actress, from somebody who really was, had like a nice tone and delivery and just like kind of a therapy.

Ela Darling: Yeah.  that would be very, very achievable. It would really just be a matter of shooting a VR video that is like VR porn, except without the sex aspect necessarily. I mean, that's yeah. 

Tim Norton: Anyone else there listening, take the idea. I'm probably not ever going to follow through on it. I relinquish all rights to, I just, I like seeing their posts.

Aren't very good about [00:35:00] utilizing the latest technology and being on top of the game, especially when compared to porn, right. Porn is always at the cutting edge of that kind of thing.  but I haven't seen, you know, there's explicit educational videos, but I haven't really seen anything that touched on, on the psychology of it.

 which is pretty cool.  cause it's, this is a problem affecting a lot 

Ela Darling: of people. I think. Something like that would be best done as a collaboration with a professional like yourself who can be present to sort of guide the discussion in the right direction and to make sure that it's being delivered in a way that is still therapeutically effective and safe and helpful.

You surely don't 

Tim Norton: yeah. Yeah. Added to the list.  Cool. Cool. So where are you headed next and with all of 

Ela Darling: this?  so right now I'm with PVR. I am finding I'm seeking a VR content creators in the adult space who are interested in doing a [00:36:00] partnership with us to license their content and, and do a rev share on, on getting their videos out to our consumer base.

Because again, it's a really cool headset and I want to get as many producers and creators,  Involved and, and on our site so that people can access their content. So that's something I'm really focused on. I'm going to Prague in a few weeks to make some more connections with people and just really build up that platform,  because I really love it.

And then,  with, you know, my own kind of interests, just really, really, really excited about this new live broadcast thing that I'm making.  I've been building little dorky, Arduino robots that you can play with in the VR experience. So building what, like,  do you know what an Arduino is? I do not.

It's a microcontroller, so it's,  it's a little board that you can,  you can write code and upload it to this little board and it will like, it controls whatever kind of robotic thing that you're making with it. So for example, the [00:37:00] doctorate dispensary made has an Arduino in it and a stepper motor. So.

I wrote code that would tell the stepper motor to move this, this much, this many steps,  whenever a certain command was received. And so it'll basically move it over. Rotate. And then a doctorate will fall out the bottom of the little dispenser because it's rotated in such a way that it's now available.

So an Arduino is just something that you can connect other things too. You can connect LEDs to it. You can connect Servo's or motors or any number of things, and it will control those things. So,  I've been learning C plus plus for, do we know. Okay. And I've been doing that. I also in Python to, to network with our VR application.

And so I'm going to go home and I'm going to work on optimizing some code for a drawing mechanism that 

Tim Norton: I'm making. Okay. But that is in computer programming languages. It's not like you can, at this point, say, walk [00:38:00] five meters and drop the tree. You have to really program that. Okay. Okay.  Technology, one thing I, when I was looking you up and your bio teledildonics, your, you had a quote,  somewhere saying that something about patents slowing that industry down.

 do you, do you have much experience with telltale dynamics at this point? Like it, it seems kind of in its infancy and kind of. Stuck there 

Ela Darling: right now. I've no some companies that are doing some really great stuff. Key Ru is one that's,  that's really ahead of the game on that one.  it's so strange on my Wikipedia page.

I have nothing to do with it. I've never touched it. I don't even know how it came to be, but that's one of the things that is mentioned there and it's, I, I I'm sure Ray said that. I just don't really know. Talk that much about that specific field. It's certainly not a Hill I would die on, but,  but regardless that patent that I referenced actually just expired in [00:39:00] past maybe the past week or two.

Good. So,  so yeah, that's been a pretty big thing in, in some of the tech spaces that there's now a lot of opportunity to, to innovate in that space. And I think that there's a lot of good that can be done for people.  so teledildonics is basically,  I devise that that offers sexual stimulation across space.

So you have, let's say you have a stroker that you put on your penis.  it could be connected to a porn video you're watching. So the movement on that stroker,  replicates the movement on video or,  another application could be, let's say I have a dildo device and you have a stroker device. Whatever I do to that dildo would be,  Reciprocated in your stroker device.

So it's just it's stimulation across space using a device. Basically. I think that's a good way to describe,  so if you don't know what it is now, you know,  [00:40:00] but yeah, I think it's, I think it's really cool. I think there's a lot of room for growth and I think there's a lot of potential for,  for devices that could give people a sense of sexual engagement and satisfaction when they wouldn't otherwise have it.

Tim Norton: And have you seen anybody pull off that marriage between a VR porn and Attila a teledildonic? 

Ela Darling: Yeah, that's something that Cuba does a lot of.  I haven't been working in,  and pre producer pre recorded VR porn for a very long time, but. I switched to working in live streaming VR about three years ago.

So there has been a lot of growth there that I just haven't necessarily kept up with because it wasn't relevant to what I was working on. But that is definitely something that has been done that is being done, that people are exploring. There are a couple of other companies, I think Levin's is one of them that,  when I met them a couple of years ago, that was something they were working on.

 and so it's definitely available. 

Tim Norton: Is that going to be all sex at some point? [00:41:00] What do you mean VR teledildonics across space. 

Ela Darling: Oh, is that going to be all of the sex or 

Tim Norton: is that going to be really going in that direction 

Ela Darling: now? People, Oh my gosh. People love to clutch their pearls about this, about how nobody's going to have sex anymore.

And that's not true. People are going to have this as one of the things that they enjoy, but, and maybe some people will decide, wow, I don't need to try to date. I don't need to try to court anyone. I don't need to do that. And that's cool. Like that's their choice if they. Don't want to go and find someone to have sex with, like, why is that anyone else's business?

 but now I think people are still going to want to have sex and, and want to procreate and want to have an experience with someone who could reject them because that risk being present is arousing by itself. Okay. 

Tim Norton: So no, no Armageddon here. No, 

Ela Darling: probably 

Tim Norton: not. Darn it.  well, okay. Any, any other messages for the guys out there having hard conversations or not having hard conversations or you're basically saying don't have the [00:42:00] hard conversation to have the light conversation,  and then, and keep it, just keep it playful and keep it mellow and take all the pressure out of the room.

Ela Darling: Yeah.  the, the things that I covered, the experiences that I'm covering, obviously that's not. That doesn't address every situation. There are plenty of reasons why you might have erectile dysfunction. It's not because you're nervous or in your head about it. It could be medication. It could be, it could be any number of things, but whatever it is, it's okay.

It happens to everyone. You don't owe anybody sex. You don't owe anybody, your body or an intimate experience if you're not ready for it, or if it's just not. So if you, even if you really want to have sex, you're just not. There that's okay. You're allowed to not have sex just as anyone else's. This is part of your, your agency over your body and you deserve that just as much as anyone else.

So,  just. Remember that and your, your personal value, isn't [00:43:00] tied to what your penis is doing.  in any case, whether that's not a lot or whether that's a whole lot, like whether you're not having sex or whether you're having all of the sex, that doesn't really change how valuable you are. So it kind of goes in both directions, 

Tim Norton: right?

Well, you heard it from Ela, your personal value is not tied to what your penis is doing. And I love that. Thank you. I think we'll end it right there. Thank you very much for coming. 

Ela Darling: Thank you for having me.

Shout outs to the sex positive community, including sex educators, sex therapists, sex coaches, other fellow sex, podcasters, sex surrogates, academics, sexual health, medical community, sex workers, the tantric community, and everybody else involved with having hard conversations. Bye-bye.